Wednesday, November 20, 2013
Robert Owen (Ryan Teng)
Why must people always go on and on about money? It is obvious that we should not move our labor overseas, but not because it is for the greater good of the economy. It is because, we, as a people, must focus more on improving our working conditions, so that we can create a society where everyone is happy. If we were to move people over to another land for cheaper labor, then who knows how they will be treated? They could have bad working conditions, live in slums, or die of starvation for all we know! This is not good, and I will not allow for such a thing to happen. Our job is to improve working conditions for workers everywhere, not to ship them off to another foreign land to have them as slaves! We must focus on creating a utopia, not on giving greedy factory owners more cash that they already have. It is our job to create a utopia and we should keep that job here. That, I believe, is what we should do.
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Malthus (Michael Kowalski)
ReplyDeleteYou see in saying that it is for the greater good of the economy you have torn apart your own argument. The economy of our people are more important sadly.
Robert Owen (Ryan Teng)
DeleteHow so?
Malthus (Michael Kowalski)
DeleteHaving the goods be cheaper, Those people who are too poor to afford goods currently will be able to purchase the good that have been reduced to dirt cheap. It is quite simple economics Mr. Owen, are you sure that you were properly educated.
Robert Owen (Ryan Teng)
DeleteI believe that you, as a human being, do not see yourself as lower than money. So then why is it that you value money more than human life? I believe that the happiness of the people should be priority and money should be secondary. These two things are separate, there is no need for there to be material things for people to be happy. Let us take the story of the Grinch for an example. Even though the Grinch has taken away all the people's belongings, they still enjoyed Christmas. This might be a story but its morals are applicable in real life. How do you explain this?
Malthus (Michael Kowalski)
DeleteFirst off, you are afraid have misspoken for the people whos of whoville in The Grinch were in great despair until he returned with their gifts. Next, why do people work? To gain an income is the clear answer; even a lunatic could see that-
George III (Michael Kowalski)
DeleteITA VERO!!!
Malthus (Michael Kowalski)
DeleteNow what is the difference between putting a price on the time which you work and your happiness. Simple! There is no difference. You are trading happiness for money and no one has ever refused this. This is why we can price life, being that their time had value therefore the time that they have as a sum has value. There is no faultiness and anyone who claims that there is must be examined for condition synonymous with His Majesty, King George III.
Hobbes (Michael Kowalski)
ReplyDeleteWhy should we care for the workers conditions? It is their choice to work under such circumstances and with their employer. This is done be free will and the workers should accept it unless they are such wretched human beings to be obsessed with greed to want rights to be free from their own undoing. Also you must put the positive outcomes on the scale. The utilitarian and economist are not always from my friend.
Sans Culottes (Michael Kowalski)
DeleteYou know what I say to your ignorance to the workers. REVOLUTION! Let us bring upon a new meaning of Industrial Revolution and bring back the guillotine for the venomous hydras that run our domestic business. I say we raise Robespierre from the grave to lead us to this greatness as we are not smart enough to do so ourselves. My friends, I say REVOLUTION!!!
Malthus (Michael Kowalski)
DeleteI fear you do not understand the definition revolution in this context, Monsieur. Maybe you should invest upon a dictionary. It would be contributing to the betterment of the nation.
Robert Owen (Ryan Teng)
DeleteGosh darn it, I wanted to comment on an early argument, but now that all these people are here, I'm afraid my time has passed...
Oh well, I guess I'll say it anyways
Hobbes, you say that it is the people's choice to be where they are, however it is not. There are always circumstances to why things are where they are. (This process of discovering why things are they way they are is called education, perhaps you should get one.) In this case, people were forced off their farm land by the government and had nowhere else to work but in the city. Now, as I recall, in your eyes, the government is needed to keep people from stabbing each other in the back, so let us assume that rebellion against the government is a bad idea. Also every labor union in this time has failed, so that is also out of the option. How then, is it the workers choice to work under their employers?
Hobbes (Michael Kowalski)
DeleteWhy must you resort to these primordial instincts of thinking yourself better than the others. You see I am thought of a philosophe and you are only a dreamer. My voice carries more credibility than your. I release the facts and reasonably voice while you try to forsake me to the Inferno. Why musty you give me malice for speaking truths and release a tempest of your un-Godly fury upon the just and correct me. I only wish the gift of sight upon the people, while you are value your putrid pride over the facts that I present. You now must see that my thought are as straight as the arrow shaft whilst you are child's attempt to color within the line of his coloring book.
Hobbes (Michael Kowalski)
DeleteAlso who do you think worked the lands which the government took? These people could have stayed to work if they wanted.
Women in textile mill (Kyle Sjoberg)
ReplyDeleteHobbes,
It is a hard choice we make in where we work. It's not like we can get an amazing job like running the factory. I could be a coal miner and risk my life every day or be a textile mill worker. I choose a job like this becuase i need to provide for my family. If I could get a better job i would definitely take it . I can't though because I'm a women and i have to get a crappy job. If anyone should change the working conditions it should be the business owners because they just make money and watch us work in these terrible conditions. They would have to put money in to make our jobs safer but nooooo they have to make money. They don't want to because they might loose the some money by saving our lives. To them our lives are not that important. We are just things that can be replaced easily.
Hobbes (Michael Kowalski)
DeleteDo you hear you selfishness?! You demand to have you petty wants and supposed needs over that of the populous and the business. Let us not forget that they are the ones that assumed the risks in the hopes of profits. They earned that wealth and it is up to them what they do with it. And you young lady, what is stopping you from doing as your employer has? Your own selfish and conceited ways are constricting you from progress just so things would be more convenient for you. Let us also bring to light of the universal fact that if we were to allow the absolute monarchy to flourish these men you describe as "wretched" would not have the right to do so. Either agree with one or the other, seeing as your opinion has no worth on its own.
Robert Owen (Ryan Teng)
ReplyDeleteGood god they're multiplying...
Now Hobbes, let us calm down for a moment. If anyone here is selfish it is you. If you would really like to say that you are right, then please do not come in here and accuse people of being wrong. Why not be a poised, gentleman that speaks his opinion instead of a toddler who likes to complain about human nature? You speak as if you are right all the time, however you are wrong. I agree that some people can be selfish, however this is not always so. How do you justify me creating a utopia as being selfish? I did it so that everyone could be happy, so that everyone may live a good life. I wanted to create a perfect society, and I hope that others will take from my example
Hobbes (Michael Kowalski)
DeleteThe statement that you refer does not pertain to you but the young lady. Do you not understand basic format to know that blue is commenting on a comment. As for the rest of you statement I feel sympathy towards you for you do not have the mental compastity to understand that I do everything for the betterment of all and most likely to the demise of myself. I would entreat you to place a filter upon the spigot of uneducated and incorrect thought that is placed upon your head which as the capability of a toddler. I do not appreciate being attacked Mr. Owens and I am gladly prepared for a verbal confrontation through this median if thou desire.
Robert Owen (Zack Johnson)
DeleteYou speak boldly Mr. Hobbes. Your words spout fiery malice and your attitude is that of superiority towards all. However, you walk a dangerous path. No matter how much you believe in such superiority, it can never be validated or held for extended periods of time. We see this proven in every society that has ever treated its people with contempt: revolution inevitably follows. Thus it is of the utmost importance that we listen to the viewpoints of those around them. We must not only highlight their fallacies but also their validities. By doing this we project respect and a sense of humility towards the one with whom we debate. This concept extends beyond words as well. The only way to ensure a lasting societal structure is to ensure the rights of everyone. Then, there will be no revolutions, no dramatic movements, no shifts in power. We can truly be at peace. So ask for verbal confrontation as you will, but be warned: it may come back to bite you.
Hobbes (Michael Kowalski)
DeleteGiven your misconceived idea of my speech intending harm, it is quite easy to prove that the rights which you so highly praise are in fact what causes the revolt which you fear and quake in the presence of, like a little girl. You claim that my voice causes harm and my ideologies will cause a government collapse, however when you come out of your childish dream domain, which you refuse to come out of, and view the situation in terms of reality, you can see that these rights make the people think themselves higher than they are. Giving these people rights only make them crave more as the gluttonous pigs that want to be stallions. And if we were to allow this to happen there would be swine pulling the carriage (our nation). Now do you really want this to occur, being the laughing stock of the town for letting these being of filth lead us. Thankfully, this can all be averted if the rights ,which corrupt society, are stripped from the children that must learn to live without they're crutch.
Hobbes (Michael Kowalski)
DeletePersonally Mr. Owen, I had considered you more capable and in possession of more knowledge to create such weak and simplistic point that even the sans culottes can follow your point with ease. perhaps you require some re-education, which I I would be glad to provide!
Male London Factory Worker (Ben Acker)
DeleteFor 16 hours this day, I have toiled in a steaming factory, responsive to only the angry cries of my boss who wished he didn't have to pay me the 1/2 pence for the day. Don't even THINK about testing my patience. Now that you've mentioned it, I don't really care about receiving any rights. I looked you up, Hobbes. You said that people didn't need rights. All they had to do was find ways to act the way they pleased without breaking any laws. But there's the problem! LAWS! They restrict our freedoms as citizens. We aren't greedy. We simply want to be equal, with no government laws to keep us down.